How to Install a Vibrator on a Tobb 5 Ton Feed Bin

Pofarmer

Posted 12/28/2007 17:36 (#269913) Subject: My feed dealer hanging it up.

Guy I have been using for commodity mix and some other things says he's gonna quit after the first of the year. He is young guy, and his Dad helped him part time. Said he lost about 20,000 a month when the Amish put up their own feed mill. The other part of the equation is that cows are leaving the area. Guys are selling cows, rather than buying high priced feed. Now, those same guys are talking about selling the hay next year. Low quality hay will be $35 a ton again if that happens. Also, guys are sell calves straight off the cows to reduce feed usage and cost. He said he doesn't see it improving and doesn't want to get so far in he can't get out.

I talked to another gentleman this morning who has some hay for sale. Real nice guy. He has several acres of Alfalfa and red clover. He is thinking that with inputs going up, and cash rents getting high, he just might rent his hay ground out for row crops. I wish he was about 50 miles closer to home.

This thing is gonna get interesting. There may be piles and piles of DDG's with not much to feed em to.

Dave Cen.Ia

Posted 12/28/2007 18:05 (#269927 - in reply to #269913) Subject: Interesting trends

Nevada, Iowa

We lost our local feedmill to fire about 18 months ago. There just wasn't enough business in the area for him to risk rebuilding. He was doing Ok with old facilities and equipment but couldn't cash flow the new stuff it was going to take. I really miss that place and I think it has aided the exodus of livestock from the area. It was another corn market for our area that is now lost as well. The next town to our south took over his clientele and they are nice guys but they just don't have the level of service that we came to expect at home.

On a side note, anyone know what the fertilizer value of DDG is? It may be cheaper to spread it than fertilizer soon!!

todd nrthia

Posted 12/28/2007 18:12 (#269935 - in reply to #269927) Subject: RE: Interesting trends

Aplington , Iowa

Interesting that you brought up the fertilizer value of DDG's. The ethanol plant at Eldora lost their dryer to a fire over the weekend. Now they are selling all wet DDG and having a time getting rid of it. Right now i think $5 to $10 a ton would buy all a guy wanted. I am not sure how to spread the wet stuff accurately, but it certainly would be cheap enough if the analysis was right.

Todd

Cliff SEIA

Posted 12/28/2007 19:05 (#269967 - in reply to #269913) Subject: RE: My feed dealer hanging it up.

If a person could get their hands on some $35 cow hay and there becomes a surplus of DDGs it might a good time to be increaseing a guy's cattle herd but those are two big "IFs".
eddie

Posted 12/28/2007 22:14 (#270116 - in reply to #269913) Subject: DDGS won't be too cheap

The export market is growing exponentially for it, and with the price of soybeans, it is becoming a very profitibale segment of the ethanol business, a lot of guys thought it was going to be cheap cow feed, but not so.

Eddie

Iowa Quality Hay

Posted 12/29/2007 06:48 (#270250 - in reply to #269913) Subject: RE: My feed dealer hanging it up.

Grabill, Indiana

What a timely thread!!!

Since our move to Indiana we have added a "feed store" to our farm. We are dealers for Hubbard Feeds which means we have access to all Ridley Feed products: Hubbard, Traditions, Front Runner Horse Feeds, Crystalyx, etc. We are concentrating on the "hobby" market i.e. horses and show animals. Right now all of our feeds are bagged, but we are working with two mills out side of our area to manufacture bulk feeds for us.

We have two nice mills in our area, but a little competition never hurts. One is a Purina and ADM dealer and another is an 85 year old independent that does a good job. We don't have illusions of grandeur, I have always thought a feed store would be a fun and profitable venture. Hopefully that will be the case.

Jim

Chad H

Posted 12/29/2007 12:12 (#270419 - in reply to #270116) Subject: RE: DDGS won't be too cheap

NE SD

Agreed, lots of it going to Japan and China. $80-90/ton here.

swmnhay

Posted 12/29/2007 12:23 (#270428 - in reply to #270419) Subject: Re: My feed dealer hanging it up.

Reading Mn

$165 ton del here on 12/27/07 for DDG no S was $135 2 weeks ago. Chad H

Posted 12/29/2007 12:47 (#270441 - in reply to #270428) Subject: Re: My feed dealer hanging it up.

NE SD

Haven't priced any lately. That was when we were stocking feed. Figured it hadn't changed much. Pofarmer

Posted 12/29/2007 17:00 (#270532 - in reply to #270441) Subject: Re: My feed dealer hanging it up.

DDG's $150 here too. Plant opened up last year it was $85 a ton and it's gone up steadily since then. Shoot, pelleted bean hulls are $156 a ton. markd

Posted 12/29/2007 18:13 (#270559 - in reply to #269913) Subject: RE: My feed dealer hanging it up.

Eastern Iowa

I just looked at DDG's out of Iowa Falls and they were at $168 that comes to a little over 8 cents a pound. Corn is at $4.25 at the same place or about 7.5 cents a pound. Does that make sense that the by-product is more expensive than the corn going in. Also does it make much sense to feed it to my pigs if it is more expensive than corn? No piles and piles of DDG's around here.
frank ks

Posted 12/29/2007 22:54 (#270747 - in reply to #270559) Subject: RE: My feed dealer hanging it up.

edgerton ks.

Unfortunately Mark at todays prices it doesnt make sense [cents] to feed anything to pigs right now. Not complaining because corn growers are long overdue! But at current prices the hog industry is forsome very painful times ahead. Much easier for me to sell 4.50 corn than to pay to go do chores each day. Chet Z

Posted 12/29/2007 23:17 (#270759 - in reply to #270532) Subject: Re: My feed dealer hanging it up.

Merrick County, Ne

As long as grains continue rising the by products of them will follow along with them. Same holds true if they drop. If corn is down $.10 monday, distillers grains will follow Brandon SWIA

Posted 12/30/2007 10:35 (#270974 - in reply to #270559) Subject: RE: My feed dealer hanging it up.

Look at the protein content of each.

Brandon

Brandon SWIA

Posted 12/30/2007 10:39 (#270979 - in reply to #270974) Subject: RE: My feed dealer hanging it up.

A quick google search shows DDG's at 25-30% protein. Corn at 9%. Energy value is very similar.

Brandon

RayJenkins

Posted 12/30/2007 10:52 (#270985 - in reply to #270979) Subject: RE: My feed dealer hanging it up.

SC Iowa

You are correct Brandon....

DDG values up to 3-4 months ago primairly reflected their worth as replacement energy source (ie; corn)....now that soybean meal has shot up $100/ton since mid August, the protein value of DDG's has "kicked in" to the value equation....

A feed user in Asia or someplace else is running his calculator and determining he can import less total pounds of feed to meet energy/protein requirements by including DDG's in the ration at appropriate amount...and with freight a big component of the delivered price to those destinations, the value of DDG's goes up until a new price equilibrium is established...nutrient density has value...

Dave-ECIA

Posted 12/30/2007 13:09 (#271094 - in reply to #270985) Subject: Exactly Ray

Nutrient density.

Means different things to different people.

I think of it as more energy per mouthful. Also, less volume to handle to get the same amount of energy.

It's also why you'll see in the future that asia will prefer to import meat vs grains. The volume is much reduced and likewise the freight costs are less.

The Asians just haven't figured out "how" yet, but they will.

Dave

bgunzy

Posted 12/30/2007 18:22 (#271330 - in reply to #269935) Subject: Re: My feed dealer hanging it up.

Humeston, IA

On a dry matter basis, DDGS has about 0.8% phosphorus and 1.0% potassium. At 31% protein, that's about 5% nitrogen as well. The wet DGS is about 70% water, so per ton, you'd have about 30 lbs N, 4.8 lbs P, and 6 lbs K. I guess at 5 tons/ac you could have 150 lbs N, 24 lbs P and 30 lbs K. Hmmm, at $10/ton, that's not a bad deal, except for the spreading and the mess. But, deals like that wouldn't come along very often (usually would be $40-50/ton). markd

Posted 12/30/2007 18:34 (#271338 - in reply to #270979) Subject: RE: My feed dealer hanging it up.

Eastern Iowa

I am aware, Brandon, that it is not a simple one for one replacement in feed values. At 10% inclusion you are using 200 lbs DDG's to replace about 177 lb corn, 20 lb SBM and 3 lbs Dical. I just get annoyed hearing that with all these ethanol plants going in that there is going to be piles of cheap byproducts around. That just isn't the case, maybe it will in the future. Seth_ia

Posted 12/30/2007 19:42 (#271416 - in reply to #269967) Subject: RE: My feed dealer hanging it up.

$35 cow hay is called cornstalks :) bgunzy

Posted 12/31/2007 08:30 (#271799 - in reply to #269913) Subject: Re: My feed dealer hanging it up.

Humeston, IA

Good night! $20K loss/month just because there's some competition (or he lost some previous customers)? Did he build a brand new feed mill, or leasing one for a dear price?

In these tighter times for cattle producers, the feed mill, in order to keep it's shirt, has to show how a producer will be money ahead by using it's products/services. Otherwise, there's no reason for them to be in business.

Is Silver Moon/Milbank Mills competiting with him, too? If so, what are your thoughts on them?

When I go out and talk to guys about DDGS (which I sell), I point out that it is the most economical source of protein for their cows and calves at this time. I also try to build them a ration, depending on their forage quality, so they know they are feeding their livestock the right amount, not over or under feeding.

The "commodity mix" product sounds nice, and I'm guessing it's a mix of DDGS, gluten pellets, and soy hull pellets. Nice stuff, but it's a shotgun approach. Soy hull pellets are priced WAY more than they are worth. Gluten pellets should be less than DDGS, because of energy and protein levels, but this year they are not. It would be better to have a semi-tailored ration based on forage quality and other feedstuff availability (corn, oats, etc).

Pofarmer

Posted 12/31/2007 10:32 (#271908 - in reply to #271799) Subject: Re: My feed dealer hanging it up.

Yes, Silver Moon is competing with him. I've always thought they were on O.K. company, they just never had good enough prices for me to use them. He would also be competing with Pike Feeds, and obviously MFA, although they are priced so high they aren't much competition.

I think you are about right on his pellet, I know it also had some Rice Hulls in their.

What I liked about that pellet, was that I could feed it to a lot of classes and kind of "get by" Add a little more corn for feeders, pretty much straight to cows, etc, etc. Save hay and not much higher than DDG's.

I'm in the process of finishing a 19 ton bulk bin(well, maybe 1/3 through). Any thoughts on getting DDG's to flow out of it?

jackND

Posted 12/31/2007 11:06 (#271934 - in reply to #271908) Subject: Re: My feed dealer hanging it up.

Is this a hopper type bin. If so, more hopper bins have been cut open with a cutting torch than you'd care to imagine. Most around here that feed DDG's are using bunker type storage. The big lots have a pole shed type cover. swmnhay

Posted 12/31/2007 11:46 (#271966 - in reply to #271908) Subject: Re: My feed dealer hanging it up.

Reading Mn

pofarmer 2 different things.DDG are dry flow easy will work fine in bulkbin.Flows like soy meal.Heard of guys dumping in open bunker and loosing alot in windstorm.DDGwSolubles has syrup added back in.I wouldn't put in bulk bin.The dry stores well were the DDGS starts molding 10 -14 days.Some guys add preservitive. Pofarmer

Posted 12/31/2007 13:30 (#272071 - in reply to #271966) Subject: Re: My feed dealer hanging it up.

These are dry without solubles. I've had some from a different plant in a smaller bin, and they flow kinda, O.K., but they surge a lot. Those had been stored for some time, though, before I got them. Haven't tried any fresh ones. wheat farmer

Posted 12/31/2007 18:18 (#272237 - in reply to #272071) Subject: Re: My feed dealer hanging it up.

are the bins a 45 degree or 60 degree angle.  The last out of a 45 degree angle get pretty tough to get out without banging around the bottom with a rubber mallet. bgunzy

Posted 12/31/2007 18:49 (#272267 - in reply to #271908) Subject: Re: My feed dealer hanging it up.

Humeston, IA

I put my DDGS in a 28 ton 60 degree Bushnell Schuld smooth sided bulk bin, new about 10 months ago. Of course, I probably run it out within a week (or a couple of days) oftentimes, but to be honest, I've only had 2 or 3 times when the DDGS wouldn't flow out very well. These were in the summer. In the winter it flows like water.

Also, and maybe this is ancedotal evidence, but ever since I started hauling my DDGS from the plant in an air-ride trailer, things have gotten better. I used to have it hauled by another guy with a spring ride, and it was a pain to unload. My new trailer is A/R and has vibrators, so no more climbing up inside with rods. Of course, the plant might be fine tuning their mix and doing things different, I don't know.

This is DDGS, with the solubles (wouldn't want the stuff without it).

bgunzy

Posted 12/31/2007 18:53 (#272269 - in reply to #271966) Subject: Moldy DDGS

Humeston, IA

I've never had a problem with moldy DDGS because it had the solubles (syrup) added back.  The stuff should be totally dry by the time you get it, around 10-13% MC.

Now, I've seen wet DGS start to spoil after 10-14 days, but that's a different matter.

I do like DDGS with the solubles - it adds more energy in the form of fat back to the mix.  It does, unfortunately, increase the sulfur, but if the plant is doing it right, they won't over-do it.  There is a market for the solubles by itself, but I don't handle it - kind of like gasoline and matches.

Pofarmer

Posted 1/1/2008 21:08 (#273146 - in reply to #272237) Subject: Re: My feed dealer hanging it up.

The new bin is 60 degree, not sure about the old one.

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